Bad Karma, Possibly

My youngest sister, who is 42 shortly, just had her first child, a daughter. My sister is lovely and the baby is lovely and it was a really welcome event, the arrival of this babe.

Sister lives away, and has done for a bit more than two years, so it was quite the event when she travelled her, new baby in tow. Everyone she knows was thrilled - which is to say 99.9 percent of everyone. Having her, her daughter and my mother all in the same place, given her age, and my mother's age, is an event in itself. Add to this our grandmother, who is 107 and I, the photographer side of I, thought what a great opportunity to create a generational piece.

I envisioned a photo of my niece, framed, and then a photo of my sister holding said frame, and then a photo of my mother holding that photograph, framed, and then, I hoped, I would engage my cousin in Nova Scotia,  where our grandmother lives, to take the final shot, that of our grandmother holding said framed photo of the three generations after her.

Enter reality.

Our mother is, in a word, odd. She lives a fantasy life, where, when we are all together, everything is butterflies and roses. In real life, however, when we are all together, she resents every moment she is not the centre of attention. Imagine her discontent when everyone's focus was on my sister and little niece. Within days of my sister's arrival, my mother was beyond discontent. Within a week, she was fully-armed and stomping about the warpath, engaged at every moment in a quest to convince my sister she is an entirely flawed human and most of that stems from MY presence on the planet. She has, since my sister and niece's departure home, kept up a out-and-out campaign of discrediting my sister and me, and the guest my sister brought and who my mother welcomed with both of her two faces.

My mother is jealous and angry. We have another sister, who puts my mother's behaviour down to her age. But my mother has never been content. My entire life she has been angry and self-absorbed and narcissistic - and, as my entire life is more than fifty years, I cannot put it down to age; it's something in her cells.

When 15 days of my sister's visit had passed, it was clear this photograph was not going to happen and, more importantly, perhaps should not happen. I regret this part very much, but I could not in any ethical sense, burden my sister with this project, which would have culminated in a photograph she would probably hate, not for the fact of four generations and such an amazing range of ages, but for the reality of having to explain, someday, to my niece, who these women were and why we had so little to do with them.

I hope we are rare as a family. I hope - I wish it fervently - we are members of a very small minority of people whose families are this fractured. We are not friends with our mother. We do not like her. Mostly we do not and cannot trust her. She is the definition of an abusive parent, lulling us into complacency, as we keep our distance from her. How many times have we thought, "She seems to have finally mellowed," only to reconnect and have her strike again, like a viper, leasing her venom to waft its stink about us.

So there will be no four-generation photograph because the memories it would bring would be near-deadly.

So, you're pissed off I asked you to support what your bible says. OK...

I have a young nephew who is very, very involved in religion. I have personal thoughts about how deeply-involved this youngster is - some veering off to concern - but he's not in my city, so I can only have digital conversations with him.

Those conversations are, in a word, FRUSTRATING.

In the wake of the weather-related devastation in Oklahoma, my young nephew posted this:

"Pray for Oklahoma."

This set me off HUGE. I asked him, point blank, what he thought the entire state had been doing over the previous days and over the last probably 200 years, every time terrifying weather was bearing down on that state. No reply other than, "you're a jerk to challenge god," type replies.

There is absolutely NO evidence, what so ever over any time, in any situation, in any case that prayer produces ANY result.

Despite the bible's more than 38 verses specifically on the subject, and its assertions 'god' answers all prayer, that is absolutely, obviously, verifiably NOT the case.

Here's what ensued; My comments are set off in blue

Pray for Oklahoma.

JC Really? BP, do you REALLY think, when those storms are approaching, those people aren't already praying? 

Those people in the bible belt spend a LOT if time praying and yet the storms still come and still devastate. 

Seriously.

DO something for Oklahoma. Red Cross is accepting donations, which are real, concrete and useful.

HW: Prayers are definitely needed.. Thankyou so much.

JC Prayer is useless. DO something.

The logical fallacy here is ridiculous! 

Do you REALLY think those peoplw havent been praying themselves to bits? Or are you saying they're not doing it right/enough, thus blaming the victims. 

Disgusting

JC If you people have the audacity to claim that not a soul has bee praying up to now... Your bible says "if tow are gathered in my name it will be granted..."(I paraphrase). 

It is endlessly egotistical and insulting to ask for "prayer," ignore the thousands who do with NO result and ask them to keep on doing it. Insulting and ridiculous.

HW: I live in Oklahoma. I know how scary this situation is. People are stuck on streets and people in Moore have no homes. Prayers are more useful than any donation! (I bloody doubt it) If you haven't noticed, authorities have to tell people to stop coming to help because so many people step up to pray  and help after these things. If you don't think it helps, then keep that opinion to yourself. (predictable "christian" censorship) Because here in our little "bible belt" we love God and the prayers we say are very effective. Even if we have nothing  but the shirts on our backs. I hope you realize that someday. God loves you. And praying is enough! And no not everyone here in Oklahoma are Christians and desperately need prayer to be safe. What are we suppose to do other than pray at this time? Run out infront of the tornado and beg it to stop? What does that do? What help does that do that get yourself killed? So best thing to do is ask God to keep is hand on all the family's being effected and the one that have no place to go.

HW: We never said no one was praying! Of corse (sic) everyone is praying right now! All BP asked was that people that aren't praying to please keep them in their thoughts and prayers.

We are asking prayer for the people who aren't praying thankyou very much.

JC Did you just actually write, in a public forum, that useless muttering into the air is more useful than concrete help? 

The audacity if the ego! How dare you! People need food, water and shelter, which they will get from other REAL humans.

And with all those already praying, why doesn't your "god" just respond and stay the winds. 

Your illogic is STUNNING. 

I am appalled.

HW: You would be surprised at how many people don't pray here! They are selfish! If you say it's insulting to ask for prayer your wrong! You saying that is insulting to the people dying, being stripped of homes, and being injured.

 JC Really.

It is disgusting. Fully. You seriously don't see how appalling your comments are? 

How dare you blame people for this act of NATURE?

HW If you think prayer for just a small group is enough, you are severely miss led.

HW I didn't blame anyone!!!! What the heck! Your putting words into my mouth! I never once said this was anyone's fault! Your right it's nature it happens! But praying that God will keep everyone safe is NOT blaming people for this!

Why would you not pray to a God bigger than any situation we come to face? I know I would be.

JC So explain to me, with all these people praying why your god does nothing.

HW: God works in mysterious ways. He is helping now. (load of shit) We maybe not see it right at this second. But he is. He is protecting people right now. You can see him working through all the people praying and working to help get people to safety. God is doing everything right now. In the bible is says, he will never leave us nor forsake us. He is here with us right now. You just can't see it because you have no faith in him. (additional load of shit)You look over the good things that are happening. You just look at the big problem and say he is doing nothing when he is actually doing everything.

JC How many hundreds if times has the region been devastated by tornados and how many hundreds of thousands over the years have prayed and NOTHING.

When is this god of your planning to stop ignoring the prayer s he promises to ALWAYS answer?

The atheist community put out a call for donations and raised 1/2 a million dollars in two days

And how dare your pray and ask your god to change its mind about its divine plan! How dare your challenge the will of god, who creates this weather and you and decides where the storms will hit!

Prayer is a ridiculous, torturous waste of time and does NOTHING but make the lazy feel better.

Do you begin to comprehend your dilemma?

What utter bullshit.

EITHER your god makes good on its promises or it is a malicious, murderous asshole.

HW Nothing you say is true! God never promise us a perfect life! Things happen because in the beginning sin came into the world! This happen because of sin! God created us and loves us! God doesn't ignore us! He listens and answers prayers! Like I said before! And you say they raised that money? Well think about this, guess how many people were praying that people would help give in order to help. Guess how many prayed that more people would get out of their homes and help. Let me answer, A LOT! So your saying that an atheist community raised money, well so didn't many church's, schools, and family's. that is answer to prayer. You will not see God just all of a sudden fix something. He uses everyday people to show it. Yes god knows what is to come. But it is a blessing to be warned before huh. If this was a perfect world with no sin, then these things wouldn't happen. We would all worship God and we would never feel pain or hurt.

HW If that's your opinion, then that's your opinion. I know what I believe and I know God isn't just some God that likes to toucher us. He loves us and what's us all in heaven one day with him. I hope someday you realize that.

JC Torture, actually and yes, actually, given this 'god' of yours has, for as long as the US has been a country and Oklahoma a state, ignored every single prayer, and particularly those "Please turn this from us," it certainly seems to enjoy torturing it's subjects.

OR, it is impotent OR it is non-existent. What is is NOT, is real, able to act on prayer, or willing to act on prayer, despite the what? 12 biblical verses that say it WILL answer prayer....

As for 'sin' coming into the world, your "god" supposedly created a man from dust, gave him free will and a wife from a rib (a biological impossibility, unless you say you believe in magic), knew every hair on their heads and every thought they had, set them up for failure and added in the also-impossible talking snake, and did nothing to stop it even though he knew what they were up to and then blamed them for it. 

THAT, my dear, is what an abusive spouse does. 

I'm going to copy this conversation and pull out the questions I asked you, which you did not answer, and all the circular and contradictory reasoning you proposed.

HW I'm sorry you believe this way. I know what I believe and I am very faithful to my God. He loves me and he proved it to me many many times. Yes I'm a Christian, no I do not have a perfect life, no I don't have all the answers. But I do know what is true an I believe it with all my heart. I know in the end that I'm going to heave to be with my savior forever. If you don't believe that way then that is you.

HW Thankyou for helping realize I really need to seek out the answers to questions I don't know.

JC Oahhahaha... Oh Heather... I'm just re-reading your comments. How you turn and struggle to avoid acknowledging the obvious....

HW I didn't struggle at all? I knew what I was talking about. All I said was I don't know everything. Neither to you.

JC Let's start here: How many cultures have the "creation" myth? How many of them are older than christianity? (I'll give you this one. ALL of them).

Is god all knowing, all powerful?

Does 'god' have a plan for everyone? 

Is god responsible for the earth and everything in it?

Does god control the winds, the sun, the moon and the tides?

In how many places in the bible is it stated god answers all prayer?

How many times in the last 200 years have tornadoes caused devastation in just Oklahoma?

What is the percentage of christians in Oklahoma? How many of those do you suppose are praying on a regular basis (estimate is acceptable)?

Referring to the many biblical promises that god answers prayer, and taking into account the large demographic of christians in Oklahoma who (we can assume) are praying on a fairly regular basis), and also taking into account the number of times Oklahoma has been devastated by tornadoes, WHY does god ignore prayer?

RE heaven: given the amazing many-year-long voyage of Hubble and the astounding images being returned by that vessel, and given there are 400 GALAXIES like the one we live in that are viewable by the human eye, and given that with all the Challenger missions and the current space station and all the satellites currently in orbit and that at NO time has "heaven" been viewed, discovered or even suspected, what is YOUR evidence for this mythical place?

What is the definitive proof for your god and why does that proof not ALSO prove the other 4000+ gods humans have created, including the gods that other religions are ALSO positive are real?

What is one verified, corroborated incident where prayer was proven to be the cause of a desired result? Provide the verification.

What is the biblical penalty a man must pay for raping an unmarried woman? What is the penalty that woman's father must pay?

In the bible, does it say "Happy are they who smash their little ones on the rocks," or is that made up?

What penalty did god order for a group of little children who taunted an old, bald man? Hint - bears.

By what earthly thing can god be stopped? 

What is the penalty for wearing mixed fabrics? For planting mixed crops? For cutting one's sideburns?

What must one do if one's neighbour is not a believer?

What must parents do with their disobedient kids? (Hint: Leviticus)

What is the verified archaeological evidence for a small tribe of people wandering about in a very small area of desert for 40 years? Has any evidence ever been discovered that would verify this story?

If six cubits is as high as a mountain, then how did Noah manage to feed all the animals twice a day on a wooden boat that was 18 MILES long? 

If Noah had two of every kind of animal only, what did he feed the carnivores for a year?

What is the weight of two of all the know species of just spiders? (Answer: 5 tons)

How did Noah, at 600 years old, know about and then acquire polar bears from the north pole and penguins from the south, and iguanas from the Galapagos?

How did Noah, at 600 years of age, manage all the poop that would have piled up on that ship every day?

How did Noah, at 600 years of age, know if he had all the animals of the world, what they ate and how to keep the bacteria he would have also had from killing the hosts they lived on?

OK. Go.

JC Oh yeah! Also, HOW exactly did god manage to create light and dark TWO days before sun, moon and stars? Magic is not the answer. Either there is a light source or there is not. Can't have it both ways.

JC Go here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0rFZIqo8A&feature=player_embedded

Proving that prayer is superstition

For details: http://WhyWontGodHealAmputees.com/ 

JC HW, the way you wrote this - with a question mark, where there should not be one, is telling: "I didn't struggle at all?" By writing that statement and ending it with a question mark, you expose that you were struggling and you know you were. It has the effect of you asking yourself if you struggled and answering that question at the same time. 

I really hope you will answer all those questions up there. You needn't post the answers, but I hope you will go find out. I'm sure it will be revealing. 

I also hope you will listen to that video above.

JC Matthew 18:19. Either this is true or it is not true. IF you are honest with yourself and you consider the last 200 years in Oklahoma, the number of christians who pray and the fact of devastating weather you either have to ignore reality in order to "believe" in prayer or you have to be real and acknowledge prayer is superstition.

JC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nayP4v4xYg

Proving that God's Plan is impossible

By watching this short video, you will be able to prove to yourself that the ide...See more

JC Psalms 139:16. Either this is true or it is not. This cannot be negotiable.

HW You obviously haven't even read the bible because almost all of the answers are found in there. (This is totally my favourite, because she didn't comprehend I was asking her questions right out of the bible). A lot of the laws in the Old Testament don't apply to today times. They find things that prove the bible right all the time. If you would do some studying you would find the answers to these questions. God is all powerful. And I put the question mark because I was questioning why you even said that I was when you don't have all the answers either. The answer to the questions are in the bible. And I have experienced Gods presence many times and know he is real. Your just blinded by what the world tell you. But again sin is in the world. It's not perfect. Heaven is a real place. God never said it was in outer space. Again reading the bible answers these questions. I'm just telling you God has really changed my life. I know He is real and believe everything the bible tells me. I learn something new everytime I read it. Showing that I don't know everything and there is so much about God that I have to learn. No I will never know everything about Him. He wouldn't be a mighty God if we all did know everything about him.

JC Heather. I come from TEN generations of ministers. I assure you I have read it - many times - and can quote it. 

I KNOW the answers are found in there. I'm asking you to go LOOK at these verses and answer the questions I've asked you, from the bible.

WHO is "they" who are finding "things" (what things; be specific) all the time. 

IF god is all powerful, then WHY does he NOT answer the prayers of millions?

What is your EVIDENCE that heaven is a real place?

Give me the exact place in the bible that says exactly where heaven is.

C'mon. Just answer these questions.

HW:I have looked. Many times. I grew up in church. Been over seas on mission trips. Just got home from a church camp as a sponsor. I know what the bible says and what I'm telling you in some of you questions don't even matter! There just little thing that shouldn't even be questioned.

BK: Okay keyboard warriors it's time for this to settle down. BELIEVE WHAT YOU WANT TO BELIEVE, pray for it, don't pray for it.. It shouldn't bother you what someone else believes, your obviously not gonna convert each others opinions so stop trying. This pissing war is turning into a fucking facebook novel, Mark Zuckerberg should put a filter on anything that involves religion. It just starts a flame war.

JC NO. THAT is a horrible idea. 

Brandon. Are you SURE you mean what you just said?

JC: HW, answer some of these questions.

NEITHER of you gets off the hook until you can stand behind what you claim.

BK: I think its better not to discuss matters like this via facebook, talking to someone in person is way better. Also I think RELIGION is the downfall of a lot of things, but I don't think being SPIRITUAL is bad.

31 May at 21:17 · Like

JC: BK, in some cultures the belief is that a widow should be burned on a pyre when her husband dies: Do you support that belief:

In some religions, women are held responsible for men's sexuality and so, when they are very young girls, they are held down, in public, and subjected to a man cutting out their clitoris and labia, in order they not tempt men. This is a religious belief. Are you SURE you mean "believe what you want to believe," or is that act abhorrent to you?

In some religions, albino children are considered witches and are hacked apart with machetes. Are you SURE you mean what you say or is that act abhorrent to you?

"Spiritual" is a fence-sitting cop out.

JC: As for Facebook, it is an excellent place for these discussions, as they tend to be read. If one person gets real, steps back from the crap they think they believe and THINKS for a second, then the discussion has done its job.

MP: They definitely need our prayers. May God be close to everyone affected and send those who can help quickly!

JC: MP, 200 years of hundreds of thousands of people praying has produced absolutely NO result. No matter how often people mutter into the air, NOTHING will come of it. The people affected by the devastation need ACTUAL help and ACTUAL support. 

It is an affront to desperate people to continue to ask them to "pray" when there is utterly no BPefit. Not now, not ever.

HW: I never said the bible said exactly where heaven is. It says it's a real place. About the weight of all the animals, that's why the boat was so big. An the fact that God was with them the whole time. Noah was faithful and did as God told him. 
What must one do if their neighbor isn't a believer? Well in the bible God said go and make disciples of all nations. We are to lead others to come to know Christ. 
No earthly thing can stop God. 
Noah had to being extra things on the ark to feed his family and the animals Genesis 6:21. He also took younger animals because they don't have predatory instincts yet and don't reproduce yet. 
All the animals came to Noah genesis 6:20

JC: B, you are more than welcome to sign off, but you don't have the right to censor

JC: HW, fine. You've said three times now heaven is a real place. WHAT IS YOUR EVIDENCE?

AS for the 'boat,' the size is described twice in the bible. In one instance, the boat is 2/3rds the size of the Titanic; in the second description, it is 18 MILES long. WHICH is correct?

JC: Noah is not only a myth, the entire story is pulled from religions much, much older than christianity. The first written incidence of the "noah" story is 8000 years old and Babylonian.

JC: Also HW, you are incorrect when you state "A lot of the laws in the Old Testament don't apply to today times." Read Matthew 5;18-19.

HW: How can the bible state that it's 2/3rds of the titanic if it didn't even exist yet? Genesis 6:15: length 300 cubits, breadth 50 cubits, height 30 cubits. Which makes it around 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, 45 feet high, inside capacity would have been 1.4 million cubic feet. Deck area of 95,700 square feet.

JC: BK, a troll does not provide information and links: a troll has only the function of stirring things up. I am asking you and Heather to back up what YOU stated. If you cannot support your arguments, or if you are bothered by being asked to support your argument, then don't make it.

HW: I never made the argument. You did. All I said at the beginning was thankyou to BP for the prayers because they were needed

JC: Well, HW, that is a VERY good question! HOW can the bible state ANYTHING that hasn't happened yet. And on that note, who, exactly, was Also in the garden of Eden, reporting on these events. 

Also, if there was only Adam and Eve, who had two boys, one of whom killed the other, and who eventually married, WHERE did his wife come from? #incest

JC: Yes, you did, and I followed up with a LOT of information showing via verifiable history, statistics and simple observation that prayer is a ridiculous, insulting, useless waste of time.

JC: You are not correct re the dimensions of that boat because elsewhere in the bible, six cubits of water is described as "enough water to cover a mountain." That's a LOT of water and so your dimensions and that description would mean the arc was 18 MILES long. Which is it? And why is the bible contradictory on this very, very important measurement?

HW: I was talking about the titanic. Quit turning my words into something I didn't mean for them to be. Your (sic) just twisting my words to make you look right.

MP: Uhh there is MUCH evidence from believers that prayer changes things. It is our privilege as believers to talk to God and petition him for our needs on on behalf of others. For those who do not believe it may seem like a waste. And we receive anawers (sic) to prayer through the Holy Sprit which again is reaerved (sic) for believers. if you do not believe it is understandable that you do not get it. But I can speak from personal experience that God answers prayer so I will continue

JC: By the way, 450 feet long makes that boat about 1/2 the size of the Titanic, which held what? 3000 people? There are far more animals, particularly if you're talking of two at ta time, than 3000. THAT story is utterly impossible and ridiculous.

JC: MP, please tell me the last time believers took advantage of that privilege and prayed for another believer who suffered an amputation, that the severed limb would re-grow.

WHAT evidence. I would LOVE someone to provide this evidence they keep talking about.

HW: They don't pray that it would regrow. But that the surgery would go well an that that person will be able to live their life in a positive way again.

HW: There are lots of people in the world that go out if their way to pray for people. For all sorts of reasons. But it's just common sense in a situation like that to know that it's not going to regrow. You just have to pray for what can be helped.

JC: I am going to sign off. 

I am appalled that people would rather sit about and mumble into the dark than do something necessary and concrete.

DOING something DOES result in a BPefit. Muttering into the dark does NOT. Period.

There is not a shred of evidence at all, at any time, that prayer is anything more than muttering. Period. 

It sickens me that people resort to such a ridiculous and passive act, when so many need real help, real blankets, real food, real somewhere to stay, real care for their children, and when they get those things, they get them from HUMANS, not some invisible idiot who is alleged to be all powerful and to have a plan, but is absolutely deaf to how many prayers over how many years. 

IT IS APPALLING to ignore the reality of what you're all saying, when reality absolutely and concretely proves prayer is utterly, fully, endlessly useless.

www.godisimaginary.com

I realise none of you will go to that site but if you ever have the honesty to really challenge what you think you know, then you will.

God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs

www.godisimaginary.com

JC: HW, the bible is CONTRADICTORY on the point of size.

Yeah, they don't pray for it to regrow.. Nice. Heather, you've said some really dumb things here but that one wins. They don't pray for it to regrow, because ALL humans get to that point where REASON and LOGIC override their belief in fantasy. This is to say they KNOW no amount of prayer will cause a severed limb to regrow.

EITHER god is honest and true and WILL answer ALL prayers in the name of himelf/hisson/theallinonegod including those CERTAINLY made by amputees that their limbs regrow, or he does not.

HW: Okay. Whatever you believe is how you believe. Again I know what I believe and I know what the bible says. I'm not going to argue with you about things that you can look up. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it's not true. Just because you listen to what other non believers say doesn't mean it's not true. And I really like that you are telling me what I say is dumb when you don't even what to try and listen to what I believe in. I'm not going to keep saying what I believe it you keep trying to turn my words into what I'm not saying.

JC: What I find so appalling and weird is you who argue for prayer want it both ways: you state god is true and does what he says, but then you IGNORE the FACT despite how many years of horrific storms and how many millions of prayers, NOT A SINGLE TIME has "god" lived up to "his word" and stopped any of those storms, nor has any prayer, group of prayers, money paid for prayers EVER caused a limb to regrow.

You cannot have it both ways. Either god does what he says or he does not. EVIDENCE shows he does not, which is not surprising given the near perfect zero likelihood of the christian god being any more real than any of the other 4000 others humans have proposed.

Now. If any of you actually wishes to do something concrete and ACTUALLY wants to help, there are any number of charitable organisations taking money, blankets, food, clothing.

HW: All I said was people pray that people will be able to live their life again. And they will get through the surgery. Praying isn't something you do to be selfish. It's talking to God even when nothing's wrong. You have no idea what prayer is.

JC: No, HW, I do NOT believe. I rely on evidence. If there is not viable evidence, there's no reality. Belief exists despite evidence. Knowledge happens thanks to evidence and fact AND is subject to constant revision, thanks to emerging evidence.

So if you're the person who's had a limb cut off, it's selfish for you to pray to have it regrow? Bloody hell. Do you not see how much machinations you have to go through to make this all fit your paradigm?

Go back and look up some of those questions. Seriously. Go challenge yourself. 

I am particularly interested in how you will rationalise 200 years of horrific, devastating storms in a heavily christian state, where one can assume there is nea...See More

HW: Disasters happen all over the world. Not just here in our Christian state. And if you can see on tv all the donations and supplies donated are answers to prayers of the effected. I'm done trying to explain that. I've said it so many times.

JC: I am going to sign off. 

I am appalled by the conversation in that so many absolutely ignore reality and resort to an act that is demonstrably useless.

If you want to help, then contribute tangible things - clothing, food, blankets, money.

God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs

www.godisimaginary.com

BP, three: John 14:13,14; 2. And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask Me for anything in My name, and I will do it. 3. If you remain in Me and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.

JC: John 15:7 is the second one. Do you say these are true?

No answer?

Here's the deal: either the 38 + verses in the bible that GUARANTEE god will answer prayer are true or they are not. That said, if you really synthesise them all, you will find that not a soul on this planet has a hope of answered prayer because there are all sorts of conditions, including what amounts to being guilty of thought crime. Very 1984.

So. If we only consider Oklahoma and that weather has been tracked there for let's say, conservatively, 100 or so years, and that Oklahoma is a decidedly religious state, we can very safely assume there are faithful people and generations of faithful families who have, for at least that many years, been praying their hearts out their "god" will protect them from devastation due to hurricanes and tornados.

AND, if you check even the last 25 years of records, you will absolutely find no such thing has happened.

You cannot have it both ways. Either your 'god' is faithful and just, and hears its subjects or it does not.

JC: The EVIDENCE is very, very clear: no amount of prayer results in the desired action.

The EVIDENCE is also very clear, prayer is utterly futile.

NOW. Consider this: the bible states god PLANS the hours of your birth and death. IF that is true, then prayer MUST be futile, because death from whatever cause, natural, natural disaster, or abortion is PLANNED by this god.

Either the bible is the word of god - and the hours of your birth and death, and all the things you will do and will come to you are planned out and known and decided by this god, or the bible is NOT the word of god.

You can't have it both ways.

And IF you say god is the supreme being, the father, and if you say it/he/she knows every hair on your head and from before you were born, how futile is prayer and how presumptuous are humans to pray to the being they say is supreme, and as it to change it's "mind."

This is a CRITICAL reality for you and for religions in general - as they all have a supreme, all-knowing being supervising everything and one that requires its subject to be in constant adulation, despite those subjects also attributing horrific weather, horrific acts (see Sandy Hook et all) to god punishing them. It is frankly disgusting, BP.

Someone on your "pray for Oklahoma" feed said prayer is more important than aid. This is such a terrible, ridiculous thing to say. I will tell you, as a parent and an auntie, if your children are hungry and without a place to sleep, AID, not prayer, is what you want and need and to say suffering is honourable, when that suffering might mean your child dies in your arms, is fully, fully despicable.

I realise I'm hammering you on these points but to ignore them, to not really, fully understand what you say - and what it means - will lead you to a place where you MUST, in order to support your paradigm, deny reality. THAT is not a good state.

A quote:

“It doesn't seem to me that this fantastically marvellous universe, this tremendous range of time and space and different kinds of animals, and all the different planets, and all these atoms with all their motions, and so on, all this complicated thing can merely be a stage so that God can watch human beings struggle for good and evil - which is the view that religion has. The stage is too big for the drama.”-Richard P. Feynman0

BP: I'm done. Fine you win, whatever. Yeah Im tired of constantly hearing about all this crap how God can't save and prayer is wasted. There's a ton I'd love to say, but what's the point. I'm not swayed but what you say and your not swayed by what I say. In the end, when we both die, I guess we will find out. Keep trying to prove that he isn't real, it's only going to be much worse for you. I don't need quotes from scripture which you take out of line. And I don't need to constantly say that things like Sandy Hook, are HUMANS who have free will to make these decisions. But keep on going with what you believe. I'm done listening to someone who will be ignorant about so much, and twist everything around. If your 100% sure your right, read the bible front to back. Just read it, no stopping to rant about how ridiculous it is. Just read it, and if I'm wrong and 4 other billion people are, then it's all a hoax. And please don't respond, I don't need another essay.

JC: I'm not trying to 'prove god isn't real." I'm saying the EVIDENCE that we DO have suggests 'god' is pretty much impossible and beyond that, there's no good evidence to support the existence of ANY god.

So here's my last question:

EVERY religion says it is right and true and that its particular god is THE god.

Can they ALL be true?

If not - and the answer MUST be "No, they cannot all be true," then NONE is, because they all claim essentially the same thing.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm proposing that one should really THINK about these things. It matters.

It should also matter to you that you're not in a position of clinging so firmly to things that are not substantiated that you are forced to deny reality.